The difference in our playthroughs was that I was just giving her taps (deliberately getting the thinnest edge of the 'focus' meter) alternating with 'spare', like "how about now, how about now, come on, how about now" -- in accordance with the very rules that the game EXPLICITLY laid out for players to learn. Then, randomly, one of my meek swats did 300 damage and the game told me I'd killed her. It's like swatting someone's arm with the newspaper for telling a bad pun, and having someone say "are you proud of yourself???" after it turns out to have accidentally blown their torso clean off their legs.
And, this is the problem with an argument on different levels.... even IF he had properly sold the immersion in the Toriel fight (which as I said, could *absolutely* have been done well, it's not a conceptually flawed idea in itself), the fact remains that it's still a stacked deck; it's still a game designed to, as frequently as possible, make you love a character and then break your heart. That doesn't make it a bad game. It absolutely makes it not a game for me, though. I feel the same way about Quentin Tarantino movies. He's unquestionably an amazing director; I just don't enjoy experiencing the things that he's so expertly directing me into feeling. It's not worth going through all that suffering just to be impressed with how deftly he does it.
So...... MAYBE Radiation didn't deliberately intend to make the player feel uninvested.... but even if he didn't, he DID intend to make the player feel horrible, and...... well, that's ultimately the thing I never know how to put my finger on about sadism. The question I always ask myself about an apparent sadist is, "is this an actual sadist, or just a generous massochist?" Did Radiation intend to fuck with people as a power trip, or did he intend to let people have an experience he thought they would be glad to have despite how miserable it is? I think Moa is definitely in the latter camp.... from the sound of his twitter, Radiation is almost certainly a little of both.....
But the distinction is purely a matter of curiosity at this point anyway, because either way I have a hard time picturing this game bringing me more enjoyment than stress, if this is the tone he's putting so much effort into setting. The fact that you would describe this as something that you're seeking a way to *heighten* rather than mitigate pretty much confirms that we're having wildly unrelated responses to this game. (It also makes me envious of how much more you must have enjoyed Hatoful, if the miserable parts weren't just something you were willing to bear long enough to hopefully reach another scene with lasers and maid outfits!)
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And, this is the problem with an argument on different levels.... even IF he had properly sold the immersion in the Toriel fight (which as I said, could *absolutely* have been done well, it's not a conceptually flawed idea in itself), the fact remains that it's still a stacked deck; it's still a game designed to, as frequently as possible, make you love a character and then break your heart. That doesn't make it a bad game. It absolutely makes it not a game for me, though. I feel the same way about Quentin Tarantino movies. He's unquestionably an amazing director; I just don't enjoy experiencing the things that he's so expertly directing me into feeling. It's not worth going through all that suffering just to be impressed with how deftly he does it.
So...... MAYBE Radiation didn't deliberately intend to make the player feel uninvested.... but even if he didn't, he DID intend to make the player feel horrible, and...... well, that's ultimately the thing I never know how to put my finger on about sadism. The question I always ask myself about an apparent sadist is, "is this an actual sadist, or just a generous massochist?" Did Radiation intend to fuck with people as a power trip, or did he intend to let people have an experience he thought they would be glad to have despite how miserable it is? I think Moa is definitely in the latter camp.... from the sound of his twitter, Radiation is almost certainly a little of both.....
But the distinction is purely a matter of curiosity at this point anyway, because either way I have a hard time picturing this game bringing me more enjoyment than stress, if this is the tone he's putting so much effort into setting. The fact that you would describe this as something that you're seeking a way to *heighten* rather than mitigate pretty much confirms that we're having wildly unrelated responses to this game. (It also makes me envious of how much more you must have enjoyed Hatoful, if the miserable parts weren't just something you were willing to bear long enough to hopefully reach another scene with lasers and maid outfits!)