?Unknown Episode - Part 6

[davidn]

And this time, it's my turn - a large portion of this episode is me monologuing, punctuated by a series of disbelieving squawks of "WHAT?!" as another of my characters kills everybody once again. He isn't named here out loud, but there's a quite striking point where you can tell from my voice that I've realized exactly who it is.

Then, in the best of Hatoful traditions... things start to get even worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGvD1mhRe1w

0:15 Stormtrooper
0:35 Hope
1:35 Mental institution
1:55 Transformation
3:15 Not evil
4:25 My guess
4:45 The King's story
7:20 Interlude
11:40 Betrayal
12:20 Realization
14:45 The King's Picture Book
18:15 True throne room
18:45 We don't like this
19:10 Not the time
20:50 Dark metamorphosis
21:30 FORMAT C:
21:50 What we're dealing with

Comments

[xaq.livejournal.com]

You just had to end on that hellish shriek.

[davidn]

You know, I realized another thing that bothered me about Hitori's betrayal - he could have shown a bit of compassion and waited until Kazuaki died...! Instead, he wanted him to definitively know that he was stealing his life...

[xaq.livejournal.com]

I think that's the biggest reason why my opinion of him disintegrated as badly as it did; it was horrible enough he used Kazuaki as a tool for his revenge and stole his life, but that just crossed a whole extra line.

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Yes! I thought I commented on that during the stream, but maybe it was in the chat after all.... That's the moment it goes from sick to horrifying. And then to say that to Kazuaki after he spent all those years trying to convince Nageki otherwise..... he'd clearly already gone absolutely irretrievably mad.

I have such a hard time reconciling this with his classroom behaviour! And his participation in the magical girl storyline for crying out loud! I guess some sane part of him was finally able to re-emerge once he surrounded himself with friendly students? (But so close to the site of his love's death... and casually working side-by-side with his killer...??? Biding his time until... what??)

[kjorteo]

Biding his time until... what??

BBL. He was waiting for Shuu to open the abandoned medical facility so he could confront him there and "take Nageki home."

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhh, right...

[davidn]

It must have been in the chat (as usual, I didn't remove anything from the huge monologue apart from when I read a line wrongly)... I think I remember saying that Hitori must have had such contempt for someone who could have had a good life and instead wanted to die, when Nageki hadn't been given the chance to really live at all.

I would not count on a "sane" part of him having emerged anywhere near the Absolute Zero magical girl fight :) Like the original game before it, it's so strange looking back to that now from down in the realm of the King...

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

But Nageki himself was saying things like "but wouldn't it be easier for you without me around". Just because Nageki was too meek to phrase it as a direct statement instead of a fairly plain question...

[davidn]

Oh :(

[quadralien.livejournal.com]

I got the impression that that particular line annoyed Hitori enough even when he was in a more stable frame of mind?

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Annoyed him because he didn't believe it was the case! And now he's insisting that it is to someone else?

[quadralien.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Consider how Shadow-Nageki has altered his viewpoint on everything else he thinks he should be doing.

"Make sure there is nothing left of me" became "Retrieve my body."
"Go on with your life and be happy" became "Live forever with your shame."
"Everyone is worth keeping alive" could quite possibly become "Slaughter those who are a burden."

[kjorteo]

There are several subtle differences between the situations, Nageki vs. Kazuaki, Hitori's own mindset at the time he was dealing with one versus the other, etc. I suspect that in Hitori's head, the situations were different, but as for why, any of these (or some combination of all of them?) could be it and I honestly don't know what the canonical choice is, or if there even is one.

1) Hitori was well-adjusted and kind and happy and everything was fine when dear sweet Nageki was there, but when Nageki died, well....

2) Hitori and Nageki loved each other very, very dearly (to the point where if their feelings for each other were any stronger they'd be incestuous, and even as-is they make it extremely easy for imaginative shippers to go there.) Kazuaki was just some random friend and nothing even close to that level of love wasn't there. Also add in #1 here, as Hitori was probably already insane from grief by the time he and Kazuaki even met.

3) Nageki was depressed, but always in an extremely selfless manner. He hated being sick all the time because he wanted to help out with the chores or get a job or something, but just physically couldn't. He hated being a burden. He cared about Hitori so much that he hated himself for relying on him; "Hitori would be better off if he didn't have to take care of me. He could afford better food for himself if he didn't have to buy medicine for me. (Etc.)" Hitori could have seen Kazuaki's depression as more selfish--"classes and pressure and stuff are too much and meeting expectations is hard, I want to die." (Nageki never wanted to die; he just thought it would be worth it if it made Hitori's life easier. Also Charon virus in the end, there.)

4) As davidn just said, Hitori just dealt with a dearly loved bird who tried his hardest to live but couldn't (and then died,) and in contrast, could be perceiving Kazuaki as throwing a perfectly good life away. "Nageki once almost passed out because he was still trying to push through it and wash dishes and stuff when he had a stupidly high fever, and all this bird has to do is quit whining and go to class." Or something.

5) Someone in one of the Youtube comments pointed out that a bird suffering from almost (not quite until he got tricked) suicidal depression might not be the most reliable narrator ever, and some of Hitori's betrayal lines might have been somewhat exaggerated. Maybe. (Not that Hitori didn't still trick a suicidial quail into doing it just to steal his identity, of course, but also keep in mind that the Hawk Party was after him. It's stated elsewhere that another part of that switch was that he disguised Kazuaki's body as Hitori's so they would think Hitori was dead and thus end their search for him.)

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

I realised one thing about this game—all the killers in it are motivated by grief. Hitori for Nageki, Shuu for Ryuuji, and Yuuya for his father... I'm not sure how significant it is, but it sprung to mind.

Moa...... really has some actual issues, doesn't she? I still can't decide whether I'm thankful for this story or not, in the final tally. It has some truly moving and heartwarming moments, but.... it does feel like stumbling onto someone else's fetish material, not for the pigeons but for the horror, physical and emotional.... it's all bitingly effective, but also nearly completely unnecessary except for horror's sake itself.... it just feels a little irresponsible to mix it that liberally into a story that people have unrelated reasons to get into, but then maybe some people feel the same way about anthropomorphic characters in contexts where it doesn't "add anything". Ah well.

[kjorteo]

I can't get enough of this kind of stuff, personally. That's why my novel is as depressing as it is, and even when I'm playing video games, my favorite RPGs tend to be the ones whose plots are full of cynical political intrigue and backstabbing, rather than cheery wide-eyed JRPG protagonist adventuring. I am currently playing the Tactics Ogre PSP remake, for example, and that's already one of the bleakest settings I've ever seen before the game even starts. (And then it twists and turns more from there, but I won't get into that.) The last part of the intro ("Victory begets peace, and for once, the battlefields of Valeria stand silent.") is striking to me, since it comes right after announcing that the genocidal blood war instigators won; a more ideal setting would paint the resistance as "come on, good guys, let's go take down the evil empire :D" but this one isn't afraid to address the fact that even if a country is brutally oppressive, civil war isn't exactly fun either, and the "Yet none believe the calm will last" line actually comes across as more of a threat than a promise that things will improve. In other words, Valeria is a hellhole whether you fight the system or not, welcome to Tactics Ogre. :D (I love this game's story, I really do)

This part was legitimately uncomfortable for me, but only because of concern for my teammates. I realized hey, this might not be the sort of thing David should be reenacting right now but it was too late, and I was (and still am!) legitimately worried about him. :( But me, personally? I love pathos; I'm probably the guy The King was thinking of when he asked Yuuya if he enjoyed pain. (Down, Yuuya.)

[davidn]

People enjoy being taken on an emotional rollercoaster sometimes... I'm not usually one to like dark stories like this, but I really enjoyed being flabbergasted and shocked and relieved by the ending, sharing the experience with everyone else. Hatoful would have been great without the possessed nightmare BBL route underneath, but that route was what really got me to care about the characters and their stories...

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree that the emotional rollercoaster is worthwhile, but some of its twists there's just no need for.... They could have been informed of Teo's death by a security guard, instead of Ryouta carrying her head in a box himself.... Hell, the King could have been the original Shuu rather than the original Kazuaki, leaving us with at least SOME respect for Hitori (since we already had none left for Isa)... I'm sure there's other examples, but I can't come up with them off the top of my head at the moment..

[lupineangel.livejournal.com]

Okay, this is getting seriously hard to take now. On the one hand, it's the sign of excellent writing - Moa has an unparalleled ability to make you empathise with her characters and to really make you feel along with them, even if what you're usually feeling is your mind expanding as your sanity gets turned inside out by wacky twists.

But that was actually painful to watch. That cuts very close to the mark, to the point where... well, it's not fun anymore. I've never NOPEd out on a Let's Play before, and I've seen shit like Demonophobia (in all seriousness, I cannot recommend strongly enough that people here DON'T look that one up). I may yet continue with this one, as a point of pride, and because, well, I've come this far with you guys, even if I'm normally unable to make the live pidgecasts.

But seriously, fuck. In Xaq's parlance, I think I need a minute here.

D.F.

[kjorteo]

If it makes you feel any better, this is about the peak of how ... uncomfortable it gets. Heartwrenching, sure (we've only seen Xaq and David break down so far, but every team member except one gets a literal in-tears moment before all is said and done) but the rest is at least back to heartwrenching in at least somewhat safely removed fantasy pigeon scenarios. This is the worst of it as far as inspiring this level of unease through hitting this close to home.

I still feel guilty about accidentally making David read all that, though. I know I asked something like three times in this video alone and probably another eighty as the session dragged on, but ... David, you are okay, right?

And you, too, DF. Are you okay? This segment was ... difficult, I know. D:

[lupineangel.livejournal.com]

I am okay now. I have not always been okay.

I don't want to derail David's LJ with too much of my own personal wangst, but suffice it to say that I've had depression on and off for a very long time, and The King's description of it fits my experiences almost word-perfectly, right down to sleeping for 20+ hours per day only to still be tired at the end of it and wishing I could go and live in my dreams and my 'inside world' because it's happier, safer and easier there. When you're at the point of wanting to die, having someone agree to share that with you... in a twisted way, feels like a relief; it makes things feel okay again, because at least someone understands - they're not trying to force you to do things on their terms, they're willing to meet you where you are, and... well, accept you for you, when you feel like you're fundamentally unacceptable. To have those feelings brought to the fore again is uncomfortable; to then have such a scenario used as the basis for the most execrable, personal betrayal I've ever seen is pretty much at the limits of my tolerance.

Essentially, my position is "ouch, right in the tragic backstory". I'm okay now - thank you for looking out for me, man - but it just... went in a direction I didn't expect, and it's gonna take some time to get over it. My normal solution would be to use the internet for one of its more popular purposes and post pictures of cute kittens or something, but somehow that seems inappropriate in light of all the birds around. So instead, I offer this.

*group internet hug for everyone*

D.F.

[kjorteo]

That's why I provided emergency <3 further down :)

But yes, *hugs!*

[davidn]

There was a time when I thought that being Murderbeaks was the worst thing that any of my characters could possibly do. It's just shattered that, hasn't it? And at what a bad time...

At this point, I should say thank you for sharing your own experience and helping me out :)

[lupineangel.livejournal.com]

Like I said in the entry you made about your experiences, if there's anything I can to do to help you avoid that sort of extreme, I'll do it gladly, man. For me, again, a large element at the core of the feelings is the desire to be accepted for who I am, for me not to have to feel like I need to hide parts of my personality away or live up to someone else's standard, but for someone else to meet me where I am and be okay with that, be okay with me. Following that logic, I share my experience in order to get closer to where you are, and hopefully be able to meet you on your terms, and thus to help.

*hugs gently*

But damn, you did get the bloodstained end of the stick when it came to picking characters, didn't you? :P It's a shame this is how it's turned out, because I really liked... well, the person Hitori was pretending to be. And possibly the person he becomes at the end of BBL. All I can say is that the Littledove Hachiman City branch of Ofsted has some serious explaining to do when all this comes out. :P

D.F.

[davidn]

I'm okay. Although I was definitely shocked by the events that unfolded even as I read them (and it's no better hearing them read back now). My condition is nowhere near as bad as his, but having been presented with such a desperate case, I sort of fear even the possibility that I might eventually get there. I didn't realize how anxiety/depression felt, before - it's not as if you run out of things to enjoy, it's that you stop seeing the good in things that you used to enjoy. Fortunately, I am already on the road to getting the help that I need, but I don't know how long a process it's going to be yet.

So... maybe I'm not really "okay", yet, but this game isn't measurably responsible for that.

[kjorteo]

Anhedonia is ... probably not fun, either. I can't say I've ever personally experienced it, but (somewhat embarrassingly) I guess you could say I've pretended to, in that a certain character from this one project of mine has a little something along those lines. Fortunately, you're nowhere near close to that bad in that regard, either. (Though now I'm torn between being desperately curious for feedback on how ... accurate his thoughts the latest version of his chapter are, and how fearful I am that that's not the sort of thing you should be reading in this state, either.)

The good news is that you're being taken care of. Even if it ends up being a long process, trust that they're at least steering you in the right direction.

[davidn]

I know, I... haven't experienced depression on anything like that level and yet it was very difficult to read - I wasn't joking about my hands having gone numb by the time I'd finished acting it out as it unfolded.

I would say that this episode is definitely the lowest point of the game's mood, especially for people who have dealt with these feelings themselves - but more general sadness is forthcoming!

[kjorteo]

Emergency <3 for people who, well, need it after this.