Sheep Roll

[davidn]

Here - roll a sheep around!



Sheep Roll - from an original modernist poetic composition by ravenworks. Tumble the fat sheep around and eat the flowers by planting him face down on them. As usual, I'm not really sure what the greater point of this game is yet, but perhaps one will come to me.

I can say that I thought that sketching this out would be easy - but once I'd got going, the finer points of sheep-rolling mathematics proved to be a major obstacle! I first had to work out how many different frames of animation I needed, and then spent the evening writing up all the permutations of angles, frames and directions that were needed to allow full movement (I was hoping that a pattern would emerge, but none did).

If anyone else wants to do a game involving a dice-like movement like this, perhaps my lookup list would be useful (if I hadn't chosen such a rubbish format for it):

In the format [Direction of input,Angle of rotation of head object,Animation number of head object]:Resulting angle, resulting animation number

Direction of input = (0, 8, 16, 24) for (right, up, left, down)
Angle of rotation = Degrees... (0, 90, 180, 270) for (down, right, up, left), due to terrible initial mistake
Animation number: 0 = Leaning on right side, 4 = Face towards sky, 8 = Upside down with legs in air, 12 = Face towards ground, 16 = Leaning on left side, 24 = Standing with legs on ground

[0,0,0]:000,024
[0,0,4]:090,016
[0,0,8]:000,000
[0,0,12]:270,000
[0,0,16]:000,008
[0,0,24]:000,016

[0,90,0]:180,012
[0,90,4]:090,024
[0,90,8]:090,012
[0,90,16]:000,012
[0,90,12]:270,024
[0,90,24]:270,012

[0,180,0]:180,008
[0,180,4]:090,000
[0,180,8]:180,016
[0,180,12]:270,016
[0,180,16]:180,024
[0,180,24]:180,000

[0,270,0]:000,004
[0,270,4]:090,008
[0,270,8]:090,004
[0,270,12]:270,008
[0,270,16]:180,004
[0,270,24]:270,004

[16,0,0]:000,008
[16,0,4]:270,000
[16,0,8]:000,016
[16,0,12]:090,016
[16,0,16]:000,024
[16,0,24]:000,000

[16,90,0]:180,004
[16,90,4]:270,008
[16,90,8]:270,004
[16,90,12]:090,008
[16,90,16]:000,004
[16,90,24]:090,004

[16,180,0]:180,024
[16,180,4]:270,016
[16,180,8]:180,000
[16,180,12]:090,000
[16,180,16]:180,008
[16,180,24]:180,016

[16,270,0]:000,012
[16,270,4]:270,024
[16,270,8]:270,012
[16,270,12]:090,024
[16,270,16]:180,012
[16,270,24]:090,012

[24,0,0]:090,012
[24,0,4]:000,024
[24,0,8]:000,012
[24,0,12]:180,024
[24,0,16]:270,012
[24,0,24]:180,012

[24,180,0]:270,004
[24,180,4]:000,008
[24,180,8]:000,004
[24,180,16]:090,004
[24,180,12]:180,008
[24,180,24]:180,004

[24,270,0]:270,024
[24,270,4]:000,016
[24,270,8]:270,000
[24,270,12]:180,000
[24,270,16]:270,008
[24,270,24]:270,016

[24,90,0]:090,008
[24,90,4]:000,000
[24,90,8]:090,016
[24,90,12]:180,016
[24,90,16]:090,024
[24,90,24]:090,000

[8,0,0]:090,004
[8,0,4]:180,008
[8,0,8]:180,004
[8,0,16]:270,004
[8,0,12]:000,008
[8,0,24]:000,004

[8,180,0]:270,012
[8,180,4]:180,024
[8,180,8]:180,012
[8,180,12]:000,024
[8,180,16]:090,012
[8,180,24]:000,012

[8,270,0]:270,008
[8,270,4]:180,000
[8,270,8]:270,016
[8,270,12]:000,016
[8,270,16]:270,024
[8,270,24]:270,000

[8,90,0]:090,024
[8,90,4]:180,016
[8,90,8]:090,000
[8,90,12]:000,000
[8,90,16]:090,008
[8,90,24]:090,016

Comments

[kjorteo]

This is far cuter than it should be for something at which I'm so terrible. (Fortunately, at this stage it's not like a serious puzzle with right and wrong answers and ways to lose or anything, as I can roll around pretty much at random until my "come back at the flower from this angle, and if it doesn't work, maybe try this one, and maybe eventually it will work" strategy pays off.)

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm glad it's not just me who wound up playing that way XD

Although, I bet with some well-designed tutorial levels, the different ways to make your sheep oriented correctly could be imparted pretty intuitively.... (i.e. THE OPPOSITE OF HANANO PUZZLE)

[davidn]

We must now ask if I'm vindictive enough to take the approach of just letting people work it out for themselves... to which I think the answer is "yes" (though balance is a lot more difficult to do that way - it's hard to tell the point at which more people will become determined than just give up). I'm still not sure what the actual puzzle might be - get multiple different coloured sheep on to their corresponding flowers having to roll them past each other? Actually that sounds like a good start...

You may have sparked my next iPhone game here :) While Boxplode waits in the wings once again...

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

As much as I hate to say so, I think Hanano Puzzle has proven that a good number of people will beat their head against a puzzle until they can get the hang of it, as long as the rules are simple enough..... but, I do think you would reach more people if you were slightly kinder about it. ;) (Actually, that's an interesting question -- would you have enjoyed Hanano Puzzle as much if it hadn't been so cruel?)

I figured the game would basically play like it does now, but with non-random placement, and a move limit (like Running Free). I'm not sure I follow what impediment the multiple sheep would be to each other, other than as single-square walls that you can decide when to move, I guess... agh, that actually sounds like a whole OTHER brand of confusing to worry about on top of the orientation puzzle....!!

[davidn]

I think that as the size of the obstacle increases, the elation of getting over it also increases. Another game that's coming to mind is Trauma Center, where besting any level - but particularly the bonus missions which at first appear so far beyond human capability - is cause for great celebration. Hanano Puzzle works slightly differently, though - it sets up this huge barrier and leaves you to it, but it also limits you to an (apparently) tiny number of possible moves, just swapping blocks horizontally... which acts as further encouragement, the idea that you're working on something very finite and that can be beaten if you just try it one more time.

So basically, no, I think that its insurmountability was a great boost to it :) Maybe it's the difference between attracting a few people who are very, very obsessive, or a much bigger audience who think of it as a nice distraction...

Yes, those single-square walls would have their own orientation and rotation that you would have to keep track of while moving them past each other... :) Anyway, I can flesh it out and see what works and what's too confusing.

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Well, but what you're describing could work just as well if Hanano Puzzle had 15 "training" levels leading into the existing ones.... I'm sure the hardest levels would still be just as hard, it just wouldn't involve quite as much floundering in the start. Although I guess you could also mean that there's something to realising that you've "invented" a new technique to solve a puzzle, rather than just correctly applying information that was previously imparted by a puzzle that was simple enough to lead you to the solution without as much of an 'a-ha' moment.... drat. ;p

Whether to attract a broad or a cult audience is a question I'm still trying to answer for myself, so I can't even start to weigh in on that :)

[davidn]

I was surprised by how involved it was as well (just the number of different orientations and rotations for a start, listed above) - I started off rolling around at random as well, though I eventually found out that the best way to approach flowers was to roll the sheep around on his side one tile away, so that whichever exact orientation he had when adjacent to the flower, he was always in a position to put his face down by rolling on to it.

Details like that make me think that puzzles based on this would be quite good in more confined spaces, where you had to really think about how to use the available space to roll around and align yourself correctly.

[xaq.livejournal.com]

This is as cute as it is strange. Still, nicely done, Raven!

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

I only had a silly thought! This is all David's work :)

[rakarr.livejournal.com]

I think it needs some hazards, like shears, wolves, and accidental suffocation from being face-down. And with each new level you gain a new sheep to lead around haphazardly.

[davidn]

I like the idea of multiple sheep to cope with at once, and obstacles would be good - I'm still to work out what kind of game it is and whether mobile obstacles or those that you just sort of stumble accidentally into would be appropriate. (Now that I have the idea of multi-coloured sheep - sheep dip/paint to change your colour...!)

[dr-dos.livejournal.com]

Perhaps after a sheep eats a flower he goes to sleep and can longer move, acting as a wall.

[crassadon.livejournal.com]

I think only our davidn could look at a game about a fat sheep eating grass, and think "yes, but what is the greater purpose..?"

No title

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User ravenworks referenced to your post from No title (http://ravenworks.livejournal.com/1218529.html) saying: [...] Oh my god you guys ACTUALLY DID IT [...]

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Aaaaaa this is too cute XD

And yes, god, isn't three-dimensional rotation CONFUSING? Agh. The moment I realised there was such a thing as gimbal lock, I nearly gave up on wrapping my head around it altogether. I still can't fathom why adding one extra dimension adds two axes of rotation.... Congratulations on pulling it all off, I'd have probably given up and started using someone else's library by now...!

There's definitely something here, although boy howdy is it ever trickier in practice than it was in my imagination....!

[premchaia_pre4]

You only get gimbal lock with Euler angles! Go quaternions instead. It's much nicer!

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

That's what I wound up doing -- but it meant I had to learn about quaternions and how they're formed in order to do so :P Plus, it made it a lot harder to do intuitive measurements of things like "which way is this object facing".... I mean, it all makes sense now, and I see why the simpler method isn't reliable, but at the time I was just like "why can't I just look at the value in degrees like in 2D stuff, aaaaagh"

[premchaia_pre4]

*starts stacking abstract algebra textbooks on your bouncing head*

*stack* *stack* *stack*

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

Like I said, I got it figured out - it just makes me sad that it has to be worked out with formulas, instead of being as straightforward as 2D stuff is. ;p

[premchaia_pre4]

Yes, that's why I—look, read enough of those and you won't—bah.

You physical-world people. :-P

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

No, I see what you mean -- I've definitely gotten comfortable with using trig and such in 2D contexts, this is just an extension of that. I guess the problem is that I only ever have to learn these things when there's pressure on at work, and I can't afford to have it take any longer... :S Kinda saps any joy right out of learning.

[davidn]

Advanced Higher (final year of school) mathematics was the first course that I ever failed - when faced with imaginary numbers, I just couldn't see how it mattered. I was nearly put in a supplementary mathematics course in university, but they decided that having taken the Advanced Higher and having failed it was enough of a qualification.

I am very grateful that all the trigonometric functions eventually did come in useful, though, for moving objects and platforms around...

[premchaia_pre4]

Euler's identity and all the ramifications surrounding it are one of the most lovely natural formations in the abstract universe, in my opinion, linking the complex plane to trigonometry, exponents and logarithms, differential equations, polynomial expansions…

I wonder what I could do to get people to know more mathematics in general. Hrm. (I might have to start with myself, depending; I never got through nearly as much abstract algebra (especially group theory) as I'd have liked, and I sure would love to have a grasp of all the permutations of category theory and differential geometry and topology and tensor calculus and… bah, I wish I could take a few years off with just a giant stack of books and—huff.)

(Sorry, I keep repeating myself. Just the usual attitude towards mathematics is so puzzling to me. So many of my friends have more or less the same “nnngh, augh” response to it (though that's not quite how to put it). o.o)

[davidn]

I'm still hung up on how there are only two orientations in which we can say something (say, a pencil) is vertical, but "horizontal" can mean an infinite number of rotations! That, I believe, is the result of the gimbal lock, though I took a look at the actual explanation for it and my head exploded into a million little sheep.

I had wanted to add animations for the rolls, but that means working out which animation to play to reach the given state as well (6 orientations * 4 animations to reach them doesn't sound unmanageable until you realize that you have to include the angle as well, which multiplies it up to 96 pieces of data to enter again). It would (probably) be a lot easier if I were to use a 3D model and to just rotate it the right number of degrees according to whichever way is "up" at the time - although now that I say that, I'm unsure of the finer details of working that out, as well.

There is something quite Rubik-like about it, realizing how to get to an adjacent tile with the same orientation as you left the first one, and the most reliable way to approach target squares...

[ravenworks.livejournal.com]

For the animations, I figured you would basically do it by having the four limbs and head be separate objects, and just 'tween' their position from the current pose to the next pose... (with maybe a bit of math to slow it towards the sides so it looks like it's passing over the edge of a sphere instead of just travelling in a perfectly straight line, but a fast enough transition could probably work even without that...)

And there are an infinite number of 'vertical' orientations too, you just aren't noticing it because a pencil is rotationally symmetrical around that axis -- imagine it has the name of the manufacturer printed on the side (or it's a pen with a pocket clip) and you'll see what I mean :)

[dukeofthebump.livejournal.com]

It's worth playing just to hear that crunching sound effect.

I don't know where you got it, but that's video game gold!

[davidn]

It really is an adorable sound - I've used it before in Running Free, too. An excellent find just lying around on the MMF2 library CD :)

[tamakun.livejournal.com]

This game is very similar to a game I played a long time ago called Endorfun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IEFC_Y3nrA). It was a game that apparently had subliminal messages in the music that would help a person relax. In a similar vein, the game had unusual maps, but as time progressed, more and more colours would appear that would prevent you from moving the cube to the next goal.

It also had a text file with positive messages which flashed up on the screen at the end of a game. Being that the textfile was unecrypted, you could have seriously warped the "endgame message".

[davidn]

That does sound like it has the potential for abuse. Thump, thump, thump - "You did it! God, it took you that long? What a moron."

I do remember this, and the... weirdness around the thought of it giving you subliminal messages - though this is the first time I'd ever seen it played. It is indeed very similar - the puzzle, mathematically, is identical!